Amy Walter interviews two political science professors, Lynn Vavreck, the Marvin Hoffenberg Professor of American Politics and Public Policy at UCLA, and John Sides, the William R. Kenan, Jr. Chair in the Department of Political Science at Vanderbilt University. Their books, "Identity Crisis: The 2016 Presidential Campaign and the Battle for the Meaning of America" and "The Bitter End: The 2020 Presidential Campaign and the Challenge to American Democracy," examine the current political era and how it has shifted from conflicts over the size of government to identity-inflected issues. This shift is a significant reason politics feels angrier than ever. Amy, John and Lynn discuss how and why this has happened and what we can expect going into the 2024 election. They also explore political leaders' role in breaking down partisan divides and why they believe the current political climate is unlikely to change anytime soon.

Amy Walter: Lynn, John, I'm so excited to finally have the chance to speak with you because I quote you all pretty much every day. Your latest book, the Bitter End, your thesis

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